News

Simon Biltcliffe- Webmart - 26 September 2008

"Conventional" print management with lots of bodies in-house has no residual value and is dying fast.

Technology will allow massive efficiency's over the current print management models so that in-house becomes the most efficient, not the least.

Now you have a choice:

No-cost PM FreePrintManagement.com

Low-cost PM us

High-cost PM everyone else

The choice is basically how much you want to do yourself- but these days is is massively easier than it was 10 years ago to do some or all of your print buying in house and guarantee great value.

The market is turning... for the better!

Simon Biltcliffe

MD

WEBMART

www.webmartUK.com

Dave Brent - 26 September 2008

Print Management Companies are the Print equivalent of Hedge Funds in the Sub Prime Sector.

Sooner or later everyone will realise they are just a lot of hot air about to go up in smoke.

They dont produce anything take away all our margins and drive down prices.

"every dog has his day and their birthday was last week!"

Martin Bloomfield - 29 September 2008

I think a sector where the top 20 companies turn over £2bn a year and have doubled in size over the last 5 years may just have something customers like. Stick your head in the sand if you like, print managment and print management tools and technology are coming of age. Need to get over this negativity and start to leverage these tools and get print supply chain management into the 21st century.

Print Spectator - 30 September 2008

PM undoubtedly has a place; It fulfills a need. Unfortunately there are many unprofessional and dishonest companies who continue to fleece the customer without their knowledge.

ALL pm companies I have dealt with over 30 years have hidden markups built in, either in the incomprehensibly bad 'Purchasing system', or a flat paper markup all hidden so as to keep the invoice looking virginal, pure and devoid of any apparent payments to the pm company. and the client company never knows about it. Its good old fashioned smoke and mirrors. Equally, nobody makes the printing company deal with these people. If you dont like the price, dont sell it at that then. Leave it to crazy last chance saloons like Polestar. Printers are not forced to deal with third parties. All manufacturers should stick 25% on everything, everybody else seems to be doing it. Right, I'm off to buy some Bradford and Bingley shares.

lordof weboffset - 30 September 2008

I have a simple message to all purchasers of print. Deal directly with the printer. You will get a far better job, with better customer service and more than likely a better price with no hidden extras. Print is no mystery, just speak to a few printers, work out what you want and who you would like to work with and get on with it. It's simple. Next are not the only company to have seen the light. Why not join them, cut out the middle man and deal direct? Remember PM companies are making money out of you, the customer, and trying to make it out of us the printers. We cannot afford it, and I guess that you cannot either? They will claim to make savings in the supply chain, or that they are agents for printers. They often tell printers to produce phoney invoices, and then get kick backs. If you are in doubt, ask for proof of their claims, and ask who they are printing with, then get in touch directly. Printers, believe me, would rather deal with customers directly. Yes some PM companies do add value, in which case carry on, but the vast majority just sell high and buy low from any one that will take the business. I attended a print management conference last night. I have never heard so much hot air in ages. It would have been far more balanced and worthwhile if a couple of printers had been invited to speak. To any printers reading this; look at the PM companies you deal with and manage them. Do not let them manage you. Ensure your sales teams target real customers, the end users, and leave the PM companies alone. They will come to you. They need you more than you need them; It would be great if we would all do as print spectator suggests and stick 25% on all their prices, then we would really see what value they offer in supply chain management!

Nirav Morvan - 30 September 2008

If you believe PM companies force printers prices down then why let them? You don't have to give them the price they want, if your sales team was doing the job they were paid to they would already be speaking to the customer and have the enquiry directly. I suspect large companies want to deal with PM companies so they can cut staff needs in purchasing and concentrate on the core aspect of marketing their brand without employing specialist print knowledge. Next may have got rid of their in house PM arm but they are still outsourcing their print via auction software and outside PM companies. I've never heard of a PM company faking invoices and I'd think this is higly dubious and possibly illegal practice and for any large audited company would lead to severe penalties. Most companies aren't naive and are fully aware everyone needs to make a profit. Not everyone is concerned over cash savings, there are less tangible benefits to outsourcing - time savings, specialist knowledge, customer service, increased knowledge, reduced internal staff overheads, many organisations want the hassle of print and printers jargon taking out of their hands and they're prepared to pay for this.

People are happy to buy pre-packed meat from supermarkets rather than visit their local farmer, or visit a mortgage advisor rather than spend hours searching all the possible options. Time is something you can't always put a price on so stop getting hung up on costs.

Martin Bloomfield - 30 September 2008

The Stationers debate last night was just a beginning of the dialogue that is clearly needed. There are indeed plans for another event that will focus on the printer perspective. There were two clear issues that emerged at the debate; transparency and selling a solution not just mark up. Hot air? We need to understand what this really means in an intelligent and engaging but way and we will. Watch this space. martingrbloomfield@hotmail.co.uk

Julie Cook - 30 September 2008

Re Transparency and selling a solution not just mark up. Can anyone tell me which PM firm provides such a service in the North East?

Who are you Nirav Morvan? You don't have a website? Probably a print manager working from his/her bedroom!

As for "I've never heard of a PM company faking invoices and I'd think this is highly dubious and possibly illegal practice and for any large audited company would lead to severe penalties."

All the firms listed below have had there fingers burnt by print brokers/print managers all within a 10mile radius, only one of those firms now survives.

Harwood and Jackson

Silverscreen

The Studio

Laser Publications

Mayfair

Reed Print

Over 500 jobs lost!

B1 Printer - 01 October 2008

There are print managers and print managers.

However one things does seem to remain constant and in total contradiction to the claims of transparency to their clients - REBATES!!!

Not Colin Thompson - 01 October 2008

Just say "NO"

The time is coming when well-capitalised printers with sound finances will be in a very strong position and I have no doubt that they will be able to demand cash on 'pro-forma' for many jobs. And so they should.

The real economic crunch hasn't even started yet. Some PM outfits are going to have to become printers if they are to service their clients. Let's see how they fare then.

 Julie Cook is right - you take a big big risk as a printer if you become reliant or highly exposed to one of these operators. Just say "No" - you know it makes sense.

Oh, and anyone else sickened by the antics of a couple of persistent posters on here who always slip in the job recruitment advert whenever a firm goes down?

The Mighty wind - 01 October 2008

I think you will find that the job recruitment adverts are centred around the sales teams and their accounts. I would call it ambulance chasing but i am not sure it even deserves that name.

Not Colin Thompson - 01 October 2008

Yes, indeed - one of these individuals has even tried to blatantly poach the sales team from Pindar Tewkesbury on here today. Disgusting. Speaks volumes about his lack of ethics and integrity.

Martin Bloomfield - 02 October 2008

Stationers plan to do an email survey and to organise another event with a panel of printers debating print managment, transparency issues and offering solutuions.

I'd like to hear from anyone who can tell me what questions we should be asking in the survey and who would be good as a speaker.

I really need some help to get at the issues, so what needs addressing? Email me if you want to help on martingrbloomfield@hotmail.co.uk. I have a day job I need to get on with, but this debate needs developing in the next few weeks and months. Thanks for your help.

Simon Biltcliffe- Webmart - 02 October 2008

I think all off the contributors on this thread would be great as a panel ( if some of them have the bottle to come out of the shadows). strong views, sincerely held & diametrically opposite- what better start!?

Simon Biltcliffe

MD

WEBMART

Martin Bloomfield - 02 October 2008

People stay in the shadows for several reasons and not all of them are dishonourable; sniping from the sidelines is easier and more fun (nothing wrong with having fun); they may have signed a non disclosure agreement with a print management company; they may be a print managment company; they may have personal views which are not the views held by thier employer, company or organisation; they may feel vulnerable and if they speak out fear repercussions in some shape or form; they may just be too embarrassed to speak out publicaly; they may be living under the illusion that they are some kind of Zoro, Lone Ranger, Batman or indeed Che Guevara type character. I suspect the vocal minority don't fully represent the views of the majority, indeed my experience to date is that most of the vocal minority have some vested interest, usually something to sell.  Email me direct if you can help me to understand the issues or you think there is a question I should be asking when we do our email survey. martingrbloomfield@hotmail.co.uk

The Mighty wind - 02 October 2008

a company I worked for had a fifteen year relationship with a blue chip client in the communications industry [in fact THE blue chip company in this arena]. The company was over the moon with the service and the product, a PM company moved in and my firm had to go to an online auction to continue the contract. It put in the lowest quote and at the first meeting was told that even though they won the auction they had to reduce their price by another 10% to get the contract. This was not feasible [but the company did investigate making crew members redundant to see if they could get there] so a preferred supplier was given the contract instead [at what price or kick back who knows]. If this was not weird enough our company was asked to carry on printing the job for 3 months because the new preferred supplier was not able to produce it in full. Sadly our company agreed to this fiasco instead of telling them where to go.

so my question is which came first the chicken or the egg?

RON O'MEARA - 06 October 2008

All this is very interesting.

I too attended the meeting at the Stationers' Hall and although I work in mail management, I have experience of doing business with printers and PM brokers and happen to think that the future of print and the management of print and post, has a great future.

Both are linked and the opportunities are there for the taking if one can combine the two.

There are good printers and Print Managers and I think there is room for both to succeed.

The good printers have excellent staff with professional attitudes to service and the same goes for the PM's that I work with but it's true to say that not everyone is the same.

If printers don't like the role of the PM, then they should up their game and offer similar services.

The PM's that we deal with , also drive a hard bargain, but i t's no good moaning or whinging.

We also have to make a profit and if it does'nt pay , it's not worth doing. You just have to be brave enough to say no.

If you sell at cost or \( heavens forbid), at less, then the writings on the wall, but I can't understand why a printer would get their fingers burnt by a print broker or get so hot under the collar about the roles that they play?